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May 27, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 27 May 2010

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Michaels

I don’t get it……. So many talk of the beauty of Jacinda Ardern…..

Well this morning I got to watch her a bit closer on Breakfast…..

She has nice hair end of story.

Her mouth looks like it should be on a horse.
And just wait….. Give her another 20 years in the house and she will sound just like Clark.

Give me Nikki anyday!!!

[DPF: 20 demerits. Leave alone the personal stuff]
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May 27, 2010 8:04am
big bruv

It looks like that well know parasite Natasha Fuller wants more of our money.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3744452/Minister-asked-to-pay-15-000-to-solo-mum

Bennett must hold firm here.
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May 27, 2010 8:21am
MikeNZ

Here is two views of the world the media don’t give us as they craft what we’re supposed to think about.
Anyone got some from our local media about local issues?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/opinion/26friedman.html

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/
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May 27, 2010 8:35am
Redbaiter

This morning one of the first things I read was that Tony Blair was about to earn millions from “advising” on global warming. A nothing man advising on a non-existent problem and getting paid millions to do so.

I thought a piece from Melanie Phillips yesterday encapsulated so well the utter unbelevable idiocy of the world wide socialist paradigm. When will these poisonous destructive people just go away?

———————————————-

MELANIE PHILLIPS: What I have found so striking is that, in this supposed age of reason, there is such an implacable refusal, over a wide and disparate range of issues, to acknowledge the authority of factual evidence over opinion, or distinguish truth from propaganda and lies, or differentiate between justice and injustice, victim and victimizer. More than that, this phenomenon is confined to the supposed custodians of reason, the intelligentsia; and some of the most prominent of these often-militant “rationalists” propound assertions that are demonstrably irrational.

Even more striking is that this repudiation of reason is associated with the most fashionable and progressive causes — anti-imperialism, anti-Americanism, anti-Zionism, environmentalism, moral and cultural relativism, multiculturalism, scientism. Yet they promote not just irrationality but a return to primitivism, pre-modern levels of social disorder, and the persecution of dissenters.
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May 27, 2010 8:40am
Chris2

Big Bruv, it would be an utter disgrace if that welfare bludger was paid anything. The woman initiated the whole affair herself when she made public complaints about cuts to her training allowance and then we later learn she was being given a staggering $715 a week in welfare payments.

I would like to see a change in the Privacy Act whereby individuals who make public claims in the media, give up their so-called right to privacy, to conceal facts material to the discussion – in this instance the fact the woman was already in receipt of a whopping $715 a week when she publicly moaned about losing some allowance. Its wrong that Government is supposedly prevented from disclosing the full picture because of privacy act concerns.

Fuller is a symbol of everything that is wrong with our welfare-obessed nation.
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May 27, 2010 8:43am
Luc Hansen

A quote from Murray McCully, in today’s NZ Herald, reporting on the unfortunate reopening of the Israeli consulate:

But he believed New Zealand had a “pro-Palestinian” view under Labour, as evidenced in votes at the United Nations.

McCully has long been a senior member of a party that when in government acquiesced in the slaughter of many indigenous peoples, so sensitivity towards the causes of such people could not be expected. Like Chris Trotter, who unfailingly supports imperial powers, he, and his government, inhabits an increasingly diminishing minority – white imperialists clutching at the straws of extant military power.

But things change.

The UN today is comprised largely of ex-colonies, which is why, in the latest vote in the UN, we of the newly minted “pro Israel” mindset are in a tiny minority. Eventually, a new world order will emerge from the ruins of the present, and these nations will hold sway, as they should on a population count alone.

How anyone can support the ongoing thuggery of Israel against the Palestinians, the vast majority of whom were not even alive in 1948, is beyond me.

In the meantime, as is usual under National, our foreign policy will fester rather than flower.
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May 27, 2010 8:45am
Swiftman the infidel

I will start to panic about the things that the ‘Greens’ tell me I should panic about, once they behave as if they actually panic about the things and believe the things they tell me I should panic about.

More complete ‘Green’ hypocrisy…and these wankas can’t even pretend it can’t be done over the internet rather than burning ‘I need to burn travel miles more than you need to burn travel miles’…

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/05/26/thoughts-above-saudi-arabia/
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May 27, 2010 8:46am
MikeNZ

Kris
I read that too and it highlights the mentality that doesn’t tell us the truth about places like Gaza.

yeah life is one humanitarian dismay in Gaza, wonder if the lifestyles of the leaders of Hamas has anything to do with it?
or maybe it is the allocation of humanitarian finding to war preparation that has something to do with it?
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001072.html
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000973.html
http://www.paltoday.com/arabic/News-64161.html
http://www.rootsclub.ps/gallery.php
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242
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May 27, 2010 8:46am
starboard

apparently they call her ” giddy up “..dont know why…
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May 27, 2010 8:47am
MikeNZ

Luc
you’ve returned.
Yeah Murray’s a naughty boy for pointing out that Labour was so pro Palestinian their present leader had his nose so far up Arafat’s bum we couldn’t see his ears.

The reality of the UN as shown here http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/opinion/26friedman.html is that it is a haven for tyrants and thugs and democracies are in the minority as organisations like the OIC keep the thuggery of Islamist countries from the agenda.
Just look at the workings of the Human rights council for instance, Israel out of 198 countries makes up more than 80% of it’s pronouncements in 20 yrs. I mean is Sudan on any of their lists?
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64K65P20100521
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May 27, 2010 8:53am
Luc Hansen

RB

RadionNZ at 9:20am has a interview that you really should listen to because it’s about you.

It’s about deniers.

Kathryn Ryan just asked in her promo what is the difference between a skeptic and a denier: I can tell her. Skeptics have an open mind and listen to the factual evidence before committing themselves. Deniers make their commitment, then cast around desperately for their reasons.

Some reasons: lies, lies, lies, conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories, ad hominems, false accusations, lies, more lies, distortions, but never, ever, proven facts.

And least of all to consider, in their world view, is the state of the world we will leave our children and grandchildren.

Or maybe I should rephrase that: uppermost in their minds is the aim to fuck the world as much as they can before they turn to ashes!
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May 27, 2010 8:59am
Murray

Where the hell did the demerits for personal stuff come from DPF?

How is this policy applied and why does it not cover the rought 90% of contributions here?

Your guidlines seems to a little bit fluffy here.
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May 27, 2010 8:59am
MikeNZ

Sudan protecting war crime suspects, ICC tells UN
Judges at the International Criminal Court want action on crimes committed during the Darfur crisis where more than 300,000 have died since 2003

May 26, 2010
The Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/sudan-protecting-war-crime-suspects-icc-tells-un/article1581193/

The Sudanese government is protecting suspects wanted for war crimes in Darfur instead of arresting them to face trial at the International Criminal Court (ICC), judges told the UN Security Council on Wednesday.

Do you think Saudi Arabia and China will want to see their mate Bashir before the court for the Islamic genocide that they have supported for the last 20 yrs?
300,000 may have died since 2003 but more than a million died by the same way in the 10yrs before that, most of them Christians/animists/pagans who are in the way of the Islamic regime and their Islamisation of the country.
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May 27, 2010 9:01am
Swiftman the infidel

Marx speak:

“Luc Hansen Says: A quote from Murray McCully, in today’s NZ Herald, reporting on the unfortunate reopening of the Israeli consulate: But he believed New Zealand had a “pro-Palestinian” view under Labour, as evidenced in votes at the United Nations. McCully has long been a senior member of a party that when in government acquiesced in the slaughter of many indigenous peoples, so sensitivity towards the causes of such people could not be expected. Like Chris Trotter, who unfailingly supports imperial powers, he, and his government, inhabits an increasingly diminishing minority – white imperialists clutching at the straws of extant military power. But things change. The UN today is comprised largely of ex-colonies, which is why, in the latest vote in the UN, we of the newly minted “pro Israel” mindset are in a tiny minority. Eventually, a new world order will emerge from the ruins of the present, and these nations will hold sway, as they should on a population count alone. How anyone can support the ongoing thuggery of Israel against the Palestinians, the vast majority of whom were not even alive in 1948, is beyond me.
In the meantime, as is usual under National, our foreign policy will fester rather than flower.”

What Luc Hansen really means:

“I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos, I hate Joos…”
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May 27, 2010 9:02am
Inventory2

Sp Pete Bethune is going to admit that he is a criminal. That’s probably the most principled thing he’s done in the last few years; the lessons in humility must be working!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/05/pete-bethune-criminal.html
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May 27, 2010 9:03am
Brian Smaller

I have a stinking head cold and cannot get anything to give me some relief unless I wait three days for a Drs appointment, take time off work, spend $45 at the Dr, and then finally get a script for some sudafed that I no longer need because my cold will be gone by the weekend. Would have been easier to get up from my desk, walk down to Lampton quay and buy some over the counter at the chemist but the Nanny State says I can’t. I think I should send my rubbish bin of used tissues to John Key by way of congratulating him on stopping the P epidemic.
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May 27, 2010 9:05am
Murray

Swift we already knew that. Luc is one of the jackboot mob from way back.

Thats why free speech is good, its gets the scum out in then open where you can see them.
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May 27, 2010 9:06am
Nefarious

I agree Michaels, she’s like My Little Pony without the intellect.

Did anyone else pick up on her racist little dig regarding maori not being able to do the maths? It was in relation to the weightloss competition the fat fuckers in parliament are having and why they aren’t calculating weight loss as a percentage of initial mass.

But how the fuck anyone could challenge Parekura on a weight loss challenge is beyond me, he’d lose my bodyweight every morning shitting out last nights pork bones and puha.

[DPF: Also 20 demerits for personal abuse]
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May 27, 2010 9:06am
Luc Hansen

MikeNZ, justifying one’s immorality by pointing to the immorality of others evidences a complete lack of morality.

I guess you don’t ascribe to the Golden Rule, but I can give you a couple of versions:

1. Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.

2. Do unto others as you would have done unto you
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May 27, 2010 9:06am
MikeNZ

LUC
I care very deeply about our world and hate generalisations generally 🙂
But I have to hand it to you, the IPCC has been found to be corrupt through the few who control the data flow and the political masters who are positioning themselves for a financial windfall the like we have never seen before.
and you slag off people who are saying whoa! lets look at this critically for a minute.
People who refuse to pay hard earned cash for a gas that is natural to people who are crooks. DUH!

The ETS may well cost National their 2nd term.
On one hand I’m glad as Key is a lying toerag, just as bad as Clark and I don’t like a PM who ignores 80% polls more than once.
But on the other hand Labour nearly screwed this country completely over and we need another two terms just to start coming right.
I don’t know that we can to be honest, as most of the population are beneficiaries of one kind or another so want the largesse to continue (no matter their education) and I don’t include those who receive superannuation here, they (hopefully) paid their tax already.

Vote Party Vote ACT next time and give John Key and The National Party a smack at the election.
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May 27, 2010 9:09am
Luc Hansen

Swiftman, thank you for helping me to spread the word, and prove my point about deniers (see above).
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May 27, 2010 9:09am
MikeNZ

Good point Brian
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May 27, 2010 9:10am
wreck1080

Gotta be impressed with the Japanese justice system.

Pete Buthune is still wet from the southern ocean , and already he is before their court.

If this were NZ, he’d be waiting at least a year for a trial, time for the lawyers to rack up delays and fees.

Why are overseas justice systems so quick?
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May 27, 2010 9:11am
MikeNZ

LUC
he hasn’t proven your point as you are pointless 🙂
or you would be if we still had that other regime where we could vote a tick or a cross on submitters.
I just loved seeing most of your posts in the red!

It brought a little smile to my face every day.
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May 27, 2010 9:13am
MikeNZ

Wreck
a pirate is a pirate to some seagoing nations.
Good on Japan and I hope he goes down for piracy.

Not that I agree with their hunting whales for meat but lying about it.
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May 27, 2010 9:14am
krazykiwi

Luc, good to see you back. I have a few questions for you. I’m after your considered opinions – not Googled support for your statements (because we all know that these are easy to find). So:-

1. Do you stand by the IPCC notwithstanding the well documented lies of its chairman in respect of AR4. If so why? If not why not?

2. Your assertion that climate change deniers “never, ever, [use] proven facts.” sounds like nonsense to me. Can you prove it? If not, will you retract that slur?

3. What proportion of changes to the global climate in the last 100 years are attributable to anthropogenic activities vs natural climatic variations?

4. Did the medieval warm period exist?

5. Do you agree that there’s been any manipulation of scientific data or process such that the threat of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change is overstated.

Intentionally simple questions. I await your opinions with interest.
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May 27, 2010 9:16am
Peter

>>More complete ‘Green’ hypocrisy…and these wankas can’t even pretend it can’t be done over the internet rather than burning ‘I need to burn travel miles more than you need to burn travel miles’…

Pontificating on high about global warming. Helllooooo!!!!!!! We haz internetz! No need for a so-called green (!) politician to be travelling overseas for yet another talkfest.

Laugh-a-minute these “greens”….
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May 27, 2010 9:19am
Luc Hansen

MikeNZ, your allegations against the IPCC are groundless. What most people don’t understand is that the IPCC does not pay for any research – it is conducted anyway, usually by government bodies or universities – and submitted to the IPCC. All the 2000 odd contributing scientists are approved by their own government. They include some of the best minds in the scientific world. To imagine that they are part of worldwide conspiracy is to accuse your own government of complicity.

Just how deep is your paranoia if that is what you believe?

More to the point, what is the basis of your denialism? Kneejerk contrarianism? Ideology? Or fear? Either way, what you need to consider is this: all, and I mean all, the published science supports the AGW theory (and everything is theory until it becomes history).

You think they are all wrong, but what if they are right?
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May 27, 2010 9:20am
MikeNZ

Swiftman the infidel (212) Says:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:46 am
More complete ‘Green’ hypocrisy…and these wankas can’t even pretend it can’t be done over the internet rather than burning ‘I need to burn travel miles more than you need to burn travel miles’

I did have a thought the other day, that if this global warming thing is real, why are they all flying all over the world?
Why isn’t air travel costing double or triple what it does (incl freight) if it really is such a problem?

Perhaps LUC has an idea why Messrs Gore, Clinton, Blair, Obama and Ki Ban Moon haven’t tied this issue down before now?
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May 27, 2010 9:21am
Michaels

# Murray (5231) Says:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:59 am

Where the hell did the demerits for personal stuff come from DPF?

How is this policy applied and why does it not cover the rought 90% of contributions here?

Your guidlines seems to a little bit fluffy here.

Because it was about a girlie and not Mallard.
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May 27, 2010 9:22am
Michaels

Or Phool for that matter…… Imagine the demerits for everytime had a go at him!!!
DPF would spend his entire day handing out demerits.

[DPF: WHen people comment here provactively, then I am more lenient of shall we say robust responses. Having said that, I have handed out demerits for certain comments about Phil.

Unprovoked attacks of a personal nature on someone not commenting here, I have lower tolerance for]
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May 27, 2010 9:23am
MikeNZ

I think that the science has been meddled with in order to create a climate 🙂 to enact a political (governance) and financial system that will redistribute wealth and make a lot of dosh for the signatories and their chums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ0iDoZhLKk
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May 27, 2010 9:26am
krazykiwi

And Luc, for the record, I do not and have never denied that the climate is changing. What I deny is that there is sufficiently robust evidence that humans are anything but the tiniest fraction responsible.

For ‘robust’ read ‘resulting from thorough, due scientific process where said process is fully open to scientific scrutiny and free from political agenda’. If you feel the global climate change machine has drawn on robust science then I pity you for your myopia.

The tide is turning Luc. Indoctrinated people – from students to scientists – are waking up to the wrong that has been done them in the name of saving the plant. And they’re pissed. Which is both excellent and overdue.
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May 27, 2010 9:29am
MikeNZ

hear hear
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May 27, 2010 9:32am
Luc Hansen

krazykiwi, you need to listen to the aforementioned programme – it’s about to start.

Answers

1. The chairman is human and makes mistakes

2. I throw that back at you. Point me to one, just one, peer-reviewed article published in a major scientific journal, esp Science, Nature, PNAS. I can point to thousands that demonstrate the validity of AGW. Or even one, just one, national science academy that agrees with you.

3. Offhand, I’m not sure but basically probably less than zero. Natural factors if anything are tilted towards a cooling, not warming. The two major ones are the planetary tilt and the sunspot cycle – both in a cooling bias.

4. It’s still disputed, but if it did exist it was insignificant globally, as was the Little Ice Age. Regardless, the planet is now well above the MWP temperatures and especially GHG concentrations.

5. No. Not only has there been no manipulation as you assert, the conservatism of the scientific world, and the IPCC whose Statement for Policymakers is approved by every single government that participates in the IPCC, means that the threat is understated.
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May 27, 2010 9:34am
Luc Hansen

Michaels

Politics is a funny old world. For example, who could imagine Jane Clifton taking up with McCully? Yeeek!! But she must love him…omigod…

My message is, you never know, maybe DPF likes Jacinda. And it’s his blog!
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May 27, 2010 9:38am
stephen

“Coalition considers plan to sell off Britain’s roads”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/7756596/Coalition-considers-plan-to-sell-off-Britains-roads.html

How the hell…
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May 27, 2010 9:42am
MikeNZ

5.
LUc LUc LUC
they are politicians so they follow their political needs not facts, truth or right.
That’s why National might well be out on their ears next elections.
People are waking up and speaking out, they don’t like being rorted by liars and their supporters.
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May 27, 2010 9:47am
MikeNZ

Stephen
I thought WTF too.
Not all roads lead to Rome nor are they all equal.
Britain one great toll road?
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May 27, 2010 9:48am
krazykiwi

Luc,

1. Lies are not mistakes. They are lies. Don’t twist the truth – you need to be a ‘climate scientists’ to do that and (until now) get away with it. Puchauri heads the world’s most influential environmental policy group and he is dishonest and corrupt. The fish rots from the down. Way back in 1996 there were esteemed scientists lamenting the IPCCs flagrant abuse of the peer-review process. That you continue to defend them is astounding.

2. Answer the question Luc. Your assertion that climate change deniers “never, ever, [use] proven facts.” sounds like nonsense to me. Can you prove it? If not, will you retract that slur?

3. [KK] Q:”What proportion of changes to the global climate in the last 100 years are attributable to anthropogenic activities vs natural climatic variations?” [LH] A:”I’m not sure but basically probably less than zero.”
?!?!

4. I asked for your opinion. I’ll put you down as disputing the existence of the MWP.

5. Noted, and I disagree. You’re on the wrong side of the swing of scientific and public option, but you may come to your senses in time. I hope for the best – even for idiots like you Luc
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May 27, 2010 9:54am
Rick Rowling

I heard the denialists thing too.

Personally, if anyone says that something as complex as this “definitely is” happening, or “definitely isn’t” happening, and they don’t have a PHD or at least post-grad in a related field, I ignore them.
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May 27, 2010 9:59am
Luc Hansen

This is a link to a session hosted by La Trobe University in Melbourne that talks about you guys and your motivations, as well as the science.

http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Feed/latrobe.edu.au.2191210398.02191210400

One fact I didn’t know before is that in the paleopast (my neologism) GHG concentrations at just above the current level have always been synonymous with mass extinctions. The speaker hastens to add that he thinks we will survive, but what if a species we depend upon for food doesn’t? Think of bees, for example.

As I have said here before, I will (hopefully, but I won’t know) have grandchildren in their middle to late age into the 22nd century. I care about them, even though they are not yet born, just as I care for the grandchildren I currently have.
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May 27, 2010 10:01am
philu

“..Or Phool for that matter…… Imagine the demerits for everytime had a go at him!!!..”

yeah..!..ideology comes into it..

rightwing scumbags like manolo have been coming on here accusing me of being a ‘p’-cook…

(and as an ex-junkie..who loathes speed…that’s getting fairly ‘offensive’..

..not to mention deeply libellous…

..he has never received the slightest censure from farrar…

..let alone demerits…

me..?..i get (random) demerits for being ‘off-topic’…

..(most of my demerits are for that…)

when is farrar going to clean up this sewer..?

..and make commenters use their real names..?

(it won’t happen overnight…but it will happen…)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 10:02am
Pauleastbay

Luc

1. The chairman is human and makes mistakes

Does…. orchestrated litany of lies ….sound familiar. ….. The chairmans comments weren’t mistakes until it was found out they were false. not mistakes…………… but deliberately fudged.

Also your anti Israel stance is sickening, I may have mentioned several times before
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May 27, 2010 10:04am
philu

oh..!..and all you denialists should go to rnz..and listen to the denialist-analysis interview referred to by luc…

it identifies the ‘mental-issues’ that makes you that way…(heh..!..)

(and possible treatment-avenues..?)

and of course..you will get a shock of recognition..you will see yourself ‘explained’..

..and that can always be disconcerting…eh..?

..especially when you feel yourself so ‘unique’…

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 10:05am
Captain Neurotic

Too bad you couldn’t afford to fund a libel and slander case phil – perhaps you could get a job a save up like normal people?
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May 27, 2010 10:07am
krazykiwi

Luc demanded: “Point me to one, just one, peer-reviewed article published in a major scientific journal”. I’m a good sport, and part of that is showing up Luc’s bluster. So here’s a few peer-reviewed articles …

♦ Climate change projections lack reality check (Weather, Volume 61, Issue 7, pp. 212, December 2006) – Madhav L. Khandekar

♦ CO2-induced global warming: a skeptic’s view of potential climate change (PDF) (Climate Research, Volume 10, Number 1, pp. 69–82, April 1998) – Sherwood B. Idso

♦ Cooling of Atmosphere Due to CO2 Emission (Energy Sources, Part A: Recovery, Utilization, and Environmental Effects, Volume 30, Issue 1, pp. 1-9, January 2008) – G. V. Chilingar, L. F. Khilyuk, O. G. Sorokhtin

♦ Cooling of the Global Ocean Since 2003 (Energy & Environment, Volume 20, Numbers 1-2, pp. 101-104, January 2009) – Craig Loehle

♦ Dangerous global warming remains unproven (Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 1, pp. 167-169, January 2007) – Robert M. Carter

♦ Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics (PDF) (International Journal of Modern Physics B, Volume 23, Issue 03, pp. 275-364, January 2009) – Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner

♦ Global Warming: A Reduced Threat? (PDF) (Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Volume 73, Issue 10, pp. 1563–1577, October 1992) – Patrick J. Michaels, David E. Stooksbury

I have literally 100’s of these. They are all peer-reviewed. I’ve not included URLs as my comment would get held up in kiwiblog’s moderation queue. Each reference should be Google’able.

So when Luc claims there’s no verifiable evidence against the threat of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change you know he’s wrong. Very wrong. And to keep repeating this nonsense as he does makes him a liar.

The fantasy is over Luc. Time to wake up.
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May 27, 2010 10:10am
Falafulu Fisi

Good comment RedBaiter and thanx, I’ll memorize Melanie Phillips comment to unload to some lefty commenter somewhere on internet debates.
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May 27, 2010 10:13am
Luc Hansen

Krazykiwi

1. You are clutching at straws. Dispute the science, by all means. The Himalayas reference was wrong, so what? The glaciers are receding, faster and faster, and many will be gone in our lifetime. That’s the issue for the people who rely on their summer water.

2. I can’t find any proven scientific facts used by the deniers: that’s my point. Can you point me to any?

3. Now you show your Anne Tolley intellect? Less than zero means the negative, as I explained. To put it simply, again, so you can understand, the major natural biases are towards cooling, not warming.

4. I don’t have a personal opinion. I wasn’t there. I rely on the scientists. Just as with AGW – I take heed of the experts, as you do whenever their answer doesn’t scare you into denial.

5. Public opinion doesn’t decide scientific facts. You assertion that I am on the wrong side of scientific opinion is just risible. You still haven’t shown me all these peer-reviewed articles proving AGW wrong. Don’t worry, I understand that they just don’t exist.

The rest of you who can’t ask at least literate questions are just paranoia junkies needing your next fix.
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May 27, 2010 10:15am
krazykiwi

Luc, how’s the hole in your foot? Got time to reload and pull the trigger again? PS How many more references would you like?
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May 27, 2010 10:20am
Falafulu Fisi

Luc, stop trying to say that you understand peer review scientific papers, since you’re an illiterate and high school drop out who can’t even understand 6th form physics/statistics/mathematics. Save your energy to educate your daughter or children which may be better than you trying to read something complex as climate science that doesn’t give any benefits to your children.

I coach a bunch of 9 & 10 year old kids in 2 sessions a week in the evening (1 to 1 and a half hour each) in algebra (solving linear equation & simultaneous equations) and calculus (integration & differentiation of polynomial equations). They’re good and they will only get better with time , surprisingly they’re not gifted children. I am helping them to be high achiever as if they’re naturally gifted. See, what I am doing is useful. Go and educate your children with something useful and stop wasting your time in trying to delve into scientific publications because illiterate like yourself can’t read them. I have advised you before to act like an illiterate and don’t pretend otherwise.
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May 27, 2010 10:22am
philu

also of note in this forum..

is that the ‘worst’ are invariably act-ite/rand-ite-cultists…

(b.t.w..i went to that left/right debate at ak uni last night..i have nearly finished a review of it..)

and while there…i was seated at about a 45 degree angle..behind a coven/clutch of young rightie-zealots..

..and yahafta say…!

they are a fucken strange little collection of loners…clustered around their bankrupt/luddite-ideology..

..with douglas as their kim ill jung…

(you can imagine these strange young men would have posters of him..over their beds…)

..and like their older brethren….they are gimlet-eyed…’hard’…

..you know they wouldn’t wak over the road to piss on you..if you were on fire…

and you also know they were seriously bullied at school…

..and are dragging around big backpacks full of ‘issues’…

and funnily enough..!

yes..!..a statistically-high number of them..were/are ‘mouth-breathers’

..it was quite fascinating to watch this coven in situ…

..i felt like david attenborough…..

..observing creatures in the jungle/wild…

‘see how their little eyes..are so close together..?

..that is a clear sign of the narrow-mindedness of this species….the rightus-grossus…

..and..sadly enough..within a parliamentary-term…it is expected they will die off/out’..

..just leaving few old roarers…crashing around in the bush..’

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 10:24am
Swiftman the infidel

“Thats why free speech is good, its gets the scum out in then open where you can see them.”

Words of wisdom that have just brightened this wet and windy Auckland day.

Thank you.

BTW.. I have just returned from a bourgeois coin and banknote show in Brisbane. I spent money there that the left here would say should be spent on global warming and Maoris and NZ’s most ‘vulnerable’ (you know, the ones who ain’t too sick to deal drugs, rape, bash and murder but are too sick to live normal lives’.

I purchased the following coins:

1) Penny of King John of England. he signed the Magna Carta in 1215
2) Penny of Edward (hot poker boy) II of England. He lost the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314. He was a gayboy so the barons held him down and rammed a super-heated poker up into his anus. His screams could be heard on the Polynesian canoes on their way to discover Aotearoa! Didn’t mess about in those days!
3) Half penny of Richard II of England. He dealt to the Peasant’s Revolt and their leader Wat Tyler (1381). He was starved to death in a castle in 1400.

I am glad my money for these purchases is now in Aussie. The people are more friendly and the newspapers are way more positive (no whining global warming or Abbo rights shit. Even the Teachers unions are all for getting rid of the 20% of school teachers who frankly, I would rather see going through our rubbish bins for food that teaching my 7 year old son).
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May 27, 2010 10:31am
Manolo

A second letter sent to the Prime Minister:

Dear Prime Minister,

I write to you to express my profound disappointment with the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) your government is imposing on New Zealand.

It’s a clear departure from your position during the electoral campaign, when you said “New Zealand will not go alone”. What has changed between then and now, other than the collapse of Copenhagen, the discovery of countless lies embedded in the IPCC report, the manipulation of data by unethical scientists, the delay of the Australian ETS legislation?

Why are you asking New Zealanders to pay for unproven science? Why should we sacrifice our lifestyle when much bigger polluters like India, China, Brazil and the United States are doing little, if nothing at all.

The middle-class of this country elected you to deliver on the “no more taxes” promise. The ETS does exactly the opposite.

The National Party has lost the votes of all members of my household. I can assure this sentiment is shared by many people I know.
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May 27, 2010 10:32am
philu

luc…if you feel the need to continue to engage with these ‘game-playing’ denialists..

…why don’t you pick up the bazooka that is the three new reports issued by the pre-eminent american scientific body..

..the national academy of science…?

..just last week..?

let them try to deny that…

(and hey..!..not a commie-un-person in sight..

..just that takes care of at least half of their fatuous drivel/contrarianism..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 10:34am
F E Smith

“a party that when in government acquiesced in the slaughter of many indigenous peoples”

Really, Luc?

Name 10 indigenous peoples slaughtered with the agreement of the National Party.
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May 27, 2010 10:35am
Luc Hansen

Poor old Krazy and Falafulofit…

krazy, I gotta go, but looking at your first item, Weather is published by the American Meteorological Society:

In 2003, the AMS issued the position statement Climate Change Research: Issues for the Atmospheric and Related Sciences:

Human activities have become a major source of environmental change. Of great urgency are the climate consequences of the increasing atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases… Because greenhouse gases continue to increase, we are, in effect, conducting a global climate experiment, neither planned nor controlled, the results of which may present unprecedented challenges to our wisdom and foresight as well as have significant impacts on our natural and societal systems.

What does that tell you?

I would like to read the article, but it was hidden behind a pay wall.

Fala, teach your kids well; don’t poison their minds. I don’t understand how an obviously bright intellect chooses the path of ignorance, but I suspect neither do you.

It’s welcome to the new luddites.

You would serve both yourselves and our kids better if you just got behind the efforts to resolve the GHG problem.
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May 27, 2010 10:39am
RightNow

Brian Smaller – get Dimetap, it is paracetemol, pseudoephedrine and dextromethorphan. Avoid Robotussin, it’s a laxative.
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May 27, 2010 10:39am
krazykiwi

A few more for Luc:-

♦ The Double Standard in Environmental Science (PDF) (Regulation, Volume 30, Number 2, pp.16-22, 2007) – Stanley W. Trimble

♦ Validity of climate change forecasting for public policy decision making (PDF) (International Journal of Forecasting, doi:10.1016, May 2009) – Kesten C. Green, J. Scott Armstrong, Willie Soon

♦ Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Concentration Across the Mid-Pleistocene Transition (Science, Volume 324, Number 5934, pp. 1551-1554, June 2009) – Bärbel Hönisch, N. Gary Hemming, David Archer, Mark Siddall, Jerry F. McManus

♦ Human Factors Explain the Increased Losses from Weather and Climate Extremes (PDF) (Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Volume 81, Issue 3, pp.437-442, March 2000) – Stanley A. Changnon, Roger A. Pielke Jr., David Changnon, Richard T. Sylves, Roger Pulwarty

♦ Modern Glacier Retreat on Kilimanjaro as Evidence of Climate Change: Observations and Fact (PDF) (International journal of climatology, Volume 24, Number 3, pp. 329-339, March 2004) – Georg Kaser et al.

♦ Proxy inconsistency and other problems in millennial paleoclimate reconstructions (PDF) (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Volume 106, Number 6, February 2009) – Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick

Now, I predict Luc is busy finding the source of all these references and will thereafter proceed to denigrate that source – a predictable and pathetic response from those who worship at the altar of Climate Change.
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May 27, 2010 10:40am
krazykiwi

krazy, I gotta go

Thanks for playing Luc. Everytime you have a stab at this issue you fall away looking more and more foolish. I hope you open your eyes one day.
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May 27, 2010 10:44am
RightNow

Luc, on the assumption that CO2 really is causing increased warming and that it will be bad for us (just for the sake of argument) what will the establishment of carbon trading achieve? The world emits 35 billion tonnes, currently priced at $20 (US) per tonne, making carbon the new highest value commodity in the world at $700billion per annum. The traders will take their percentages, and a few will get richer (including big oil who have prepared for this and are big funders of AGW ‘science’). Manufacturing will shift to China who will reap the economic windfall of the west’s self-flagellation.
So some people are going to get stinking rich on the back of the tax payers, while China becomes the manufacturing power-house of the world, building two new coal-fired power plants every week.
Let’s put aside the now pointless argument of whether AGW is real, and consider whether the solution is really addressing the problem.
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May 27, 2010 10:44am
Luc Hansen

Why 10? I probably can with research, but let’s start with the East Timorese and Palestinians, shall we? And National was in power during most of the time the US was supplying arms and money to many, many, Central and South American countries busy suppressing their indigenous people – Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Nicaragura, Bolivia, Honduras, Colombia, Guatemala..damn, 10 already!

Did I forget South Africa? Until we were forced by world opinion to change our stance, that is.
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May 27, 2010 10:47am
big bruv

Michaels

“Give me Nikki anyday!!!”

Nikki Kaye or Jacinda Adern, tell me, what really is the difference?

As far as I can see both are socialists, one just happens to be in the Labour party and the other one should be.
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May 27, 2010 10:49am
Kris K

Michaels 9:22 am,

# Murray (5231) Says:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:59 am

Where the hell did the demerits for personal stuff come from DPF?

How is this policy applied and why does it not cover the rought 90% of contributions here?

Your guidlines seems to a little bit fluffy here.

Because it was about a girlie and not Mallard.

I guess we all better be careful to not mention the Helun Klark pledge card fiasco, especially in light of the touched up photo – silk purse out of a sows ear?
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May 27, 2010 10:49am
philu

you know what one of the symptoms of denialists is..?..as identified in that rnz interview..

that is their choice/selection of ‘evidence’

..and that choice also defines the differences between a sceptic..(working on logic/evidence..)

..and a denialist..

the sceptic is looking at source-material for answers/clarification…

..wheras the denialist…is cheerry-picks through any source-material…looking for bits-that-fit…

..and usually taking them totally out of context..a context that often denies the denialist-case..

but the denialist dosen’t care…

he/she is not seeking any truth….just ‘evidence’…

(c.f…the 10.40 am comment..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 10:50am
Luc Hansen

krazy

The article published in PNAS was thoroughly rebutted. The authors appear to have retired.

But good on you for digging up the worst non-science to ever get published.

Wallow in your contrarianism, by all means, but you will get overrun.
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May 27, 2010 10:52am
Falafulu Fisi

krazykiwi, the problem with Luc is that he assumed that readers here are dumb or just ones with undergrad degrees, etc,… He is projecting that readers are like him (ie, his level of understanding), but for his ignorance, he can’t quite get it to his head that there are knowledgeable readers here (upto doctorate levels) in various fields (law, accounting, physics, maths, statistics, engineering and so forth).

Funny enough that Luc challenged you above with the following:

I can’t find any proven scientific facts used by the deniers: that’s my point. Can you point me to any

to cite him peer review and when you did, he then crybaby and said:

You are clutching at straws

Luc, just Google the references Krazykiwi cited for you because you will find most of them are freely downloadable (PDF), especially the pre-prints of those papers. When Luc is cited with references, he just simply ignore them (ie, not read them), but then he was asking for them in the first place.
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May 27, 2010 10:53am
krazykiwi

phil, The other night I somewhat magnanimously observed that you appear have a working brain. Don’t ruin my illusion by wading into the climate debate. The world and/or truth will not be saved by your full stops. Now… do you have an internet connection at home?
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May 27, 2010 10:56am
Luc Hansen

RN

I agree the argument is pointless – as far as the solution goes, I don’t know. I don’t like ETS schemes, and I don’t like the lack of climate justice the developed world is currently stuck in, but I just hope when the shit starts to hit the fan that the world will act coherently rather than the opposite.

Does anyone seriously think Aussie is still in a drought rather than a permanent expansion of the Hadley Cells?
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May 27, 2010 10:56am
Luc Hansen

Fala, give me more time, if I ever find it. But what is your view of the statement of the AMS? Hardly that of an organisation in denial like you guys.
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May 27, 2010 10:59am
krazykiwi

The article published in PNAS was thoroughly rebutted. The authors appear to have retired. But good on you for digging up the worst non-science to ever get published.

It’s good when peer-reviewed scientific papers are rebutted. That’s what science is all about isn’t it?

That you should expect me worried by your comment simply underscores your blind, unquestioning obidence to the faith.
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May 27, 2010 11:00am
Kris K

And is it true that Lucy Hansen is the only person in New Zealand who still believes AGW is a fact and is beyond questioning? – apart from the government that is?

When are Key and co. going to chuck out the pathetic ETS? When are they going to admit that AGW is a farce? And that such dishonest mechanisms are nothing more than a means to transfer wealth from the West to the Third World/Emerging Economies. This thing (the ETS) needs to go to the nation in the form of a BINDING referendum!!!
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May 27, 2010 11:04am
Doug

Activists sign-up to take hammers to pokie machines.
No surprises John Minto the ring leader, so much for private property rights.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10647749
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May 27, 2010 11:07am
Luc Hansen

I was on my way to bed (I’m a shift worker being being very naughty today because toddler will be back from day care soon!) and I remembered that the PNAS reference is actually a reply by Michael Mann to a LETTER from M&M on Mann’s original paper. I googled it and sure enough, bullseye! The link is Michael Mann’s reply to the letter.

M&M have never had a paper published in PNAS, a genuinely prestigious journal that now officially endorses AGW theory.

This just goes to show the depths denialists sink to.

Fucking lying bastards!
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May 27, 2010 11:08am
RightNow

Luc, how about you channel your energy into thinking of ways to address the problem then? There’s nothing for you to gain from arguments with skeptics/deniers about whether CAGW is real. It’s not helping the planet. What are your real motivations?
What will you tell your child in 30 or 40 years, when the planet has warmed beyond salvation?
Will you be saying
“but I told those guys on Kiwiblog and they wouldn’t listen to me”,
or
“I paid our household’s $3/week and this shouldn’t be happening”,
or will it be
“I helped figure out some real solutions and didn’t just jump on the bandwagon for a bullshit merry-go-round of money, power and emissions”?

It’s pretty clear philu won’t be doing anything tangible to make a difference, his line to his kid will be “the government should have done it for us son, instead all they did was prop me up”

So Luc, are you helping or just full of wind?
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May 27, 2010 11:09am
philu

“..It’s pretty clear philu won’t be doing anything tangible to make a difference,..”

i’m a vegan..

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan

..my environmental footprint is a fraction of yours..

‘tangible’ enough for you..?

that is one small/easy move/step/cure that any individual can take..

..there are no excuses not to…you don’t ‘need’ anyone else to make it happen

..there are just addictions to flesh/fat/blood…that aren’t that hard to break…

..(that link will take you to all the dietary-information/recipies you will need..

..a weeks-worth of gourmet vegan indian recipies..?

..oh..!..still my beating heart/stomach…!..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 11:18am
F E Smith

Luc: You are kidding, surely? That reasoning is completly fallacious. You seem to confusing left wing rebels bent on a murderous and illegitimate overthrow of their country’s government and the replacement of that regime (whether democratic or authoritarian) with a communist dictatorship supported by one of the most murderous, imperialistic and aggressive countries seen in the 20th century with indigenous peoples. You know, that one that slaughtered tens of millions of indigenous Chinese and a fair few indigenous Tibetans as well. Of course, then there is North Korea to consider…

Just because a group claims the support of ‘the people’ doesn’t mean it has the support of the people.

Oh, and weren’t NZ Labour in government during much of the Contra uprising in Nicaragua? Or was it earlier genocides that you are meaning? And a previous Labour government supported the recognition that peace loving government called the Peoples Republic of China along with the US.

But then, you are a true supporter of the more extreme and practitioners of political, social and religious violence on the planet today, aren’t you?
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May 27, 2010 11:23am
Falafulu Fisi

Luc said…
M&M have never had a paper published in PNAS, a genuinely prestigious journal that now officially endorses AGW theory.

Luc, I had pointed out to you in a previous debate here (Kiwiblog) that the name of the journal is irrelevant, although it is nice to have your work published in an international reputable one, but the most important thing in a peer review publication is not the name/reputation of the journal itself that the article is being published, but the content of the article/s. So, your argument is useless, because Einstein submitted his 3 revolutionary papers (on Brownian motion, special relativity, photo-electric effect) to major international reputable journals at the time but were rejected. Special relativity paper was regarded as absurd by editors and their scientists (reviewers) that it shouldn’t be published.

Young Einstein corresponded with big names in Physics at the time, as Prof. Max Planck about his papers. He sent copies of his papers to the great physicist (Planck) to take a look at. Surprisingly, Planck saw Einstein’s theories and he thought that they deserved to be published in the scientific journals. Mind you that Einstein didn’t have a PhD at the time when he tried to publish his papers; all he had was just an undergrad degree. Planck then persuaded the editors of an obscure local German physics journal, call Annalen der Physik to publish Einstein’s work and so they did. The rest is history.

So, content is what counts and not the name/reputation of the journal.
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May 27, 2010 11:30am
krazykiwi

A few more for Luc:-

♦ The Politicised Science of Greenhouse Climate Change (Energy & Environment, Volume 15, Number 5, pp. 853-860, September 2004) – Garth Paltridge

♦ Climate Science and the Stern Review (PDF) (World Economics, Volume 8, Number 2, April–June 2007) – Robert M. Carter, C. R. de Freitas, Indur M. Goklany, David Holland, Richard S. Lindzen

♦ Scientific Shortcomings in the EPA’s Endangerment Finding from Greenhouse Gases (PDF) (The Cato Journal, Volume 29 Number 3, pp. 497-521, 2009) – Patrick J. Michaels, Paul C. Knappenberger

♦ Governments and Climate Change Issues: The case for rethinking (World Economics Journal, Volume 8, Issue 2, April 2007) – David R. Henderson
:
.. and so on, and so on …

Now Luc, you claimed that, and I quote “climate change deniers never, ever, [use] proven facts”.

Do you still hold that to view, now that I have cited plenty of peer-reviewed articles which contain evidence contradicting the notion of CAGW?

Or can a ‘fact’ only be proven to your satisfaction when it supports your belief system? Mmm?
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May 27, 2010 11:39am
philu

national have a long history of being wannabe-warmongers….

..of sending our young men/women to go and butcher some indigenous peoples..somewhere..

..usually at the behest of either of the imperialist-powers..britan and america..

..who could forget the paroxysms of war-fever wracking simon ‘all the way with bush’ power..

..when that vile little shrub was whipping up the war-hysteria..against iraq..?

had national been in power then…we would have been in that act of infamy..up to our knecks…

..this latest ezxample of key promising our young men/women to america…for their geo-political power-moves/plays in the asian region..

..being just the latest manifestation of nationals eagerness for war/killing..

..btw..speaking of afghanistan…

you do know that the afghan elites/intelligentsia are almost matter-of-fact that the americans are funding the taliban…eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/afghans-believe-us-is-funding-taliban/

..this to help justify the establishment of their bases there…bases of major strategic-import for the future/american-interests..

and speaking of where our ‘boys’ are..?..helmund..?

oe of the rationales the afghani-elites use for their view…

..is that there are 15,000 heavily-armed/supported foreign troops in helmund…

..seemingly unable to defeat a rag-tag/under-equipped force of locals..numbering just a couple of thousand…

(‘holy geo-political-power-plays..!..batman…!’..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 11:41am
nickb

Who was in power when troops were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan phil?
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May 27, 2010 11:43am
philu

haha..!..fiulla-shit is calling up the ghost of einstein to support his anti-science/denialist ‘case’..

brilliant…!

it’s like the kkk calling on nelson mandela…

phil(whoar.co.z)
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May 27, 2010 11:43am
philu

i’m not here to fucken defend the warmongers/enablers in labour…

clark/they also have fingers stained with blood…

(and all in the name/pursuit of a ‘free-trade-deal’..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 11:47am
krazykiwi

Luc, and just a footnote.

We should both be careful placing too much store on the status of “peer-reviewed” these days. This term previously indicated a high level of evidential veracity, but your beloved IPCC has perverted the peer-review process itself sufficiently such that the very notion of peer-review is at best tainted, at worst valueless.

Their perversion include altering previously peer-reviewed material for inclusion in their reports, overt tribalism in the selection of reviewers, and outright rejection of material reviewed by scientists considered unsupportive of the pre-determined belief of impending CAGW.

Sleep tight. And mind the skeptic-truth-bugs don’t bite.
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May 27, 2010 11:47am
Falafulu Fisi

Phil, how about you find out where Natasha Fuller lives and ask her out for a date, huh? She is your match and no doubt that you two will have great kids together. Hehe, a lovely couple.
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May 27, 2010 11:50am
philu

fulla shit..you do know you are a template for ‘total fool’…eh..?

one outta the box…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 11:54am
starboard

..heh heh good one FF !
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May 27, 2010 12:01pm
Falafulu Fisi

Ok, Phil, lets ignore Einstein’s example then. How about the following example:

The Black-Scholes model in finance/economics, developed by Dr/s Black, Scholes, Merton for pricing of european-style options, which they used heat diffusion equation from thermodynamics in deriving their formula. Scholes and Merton won the economics nobel prize of 1997 for their work. Their paper:

The Pricing of Options and Corporate Liabilities published in Journal of Political Economy (JOPE)

JOPE was an obscure journal until it became notable in the academic circles after the publication of Black-Scholes‘ paper.

Again, the content of the article is what counts and not the name/reputation of the journal.

Is that clear enough for you Phil?
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May 27, 2010 12:02pm
Bevan

..btw..speaking of afghanistan…

you do know that the afghan elites/intelligentsia are almost matter-of-fact that the americans are funding the taliban…eh..?

So? The only issue there is the complete ignorance of the Afghani’s who believe that. Whats you suggestion phil? Pull out and leave the country for the likes of the Taliban? What do you think would happen if the Yanks pulled out? Love cuddles and roses? Nah phool – it would turn into another civil war, and you’d be jeering the yanks for leaving the mess! Save you outrage, ya nothing but a hypocrite.

The Americans legally and justifiably invaded Afghanistan, and instead of just bombing the fuck outta them and leaving the charred remains, they are actually trying to help get the Afghani’s back on their feet.
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May 27, 2010 12:02pm
Manolo

“Phil, how about you find out where Natasha Fuller lives and ask her out for a date, huh? She is your match and no doubt that you two will have great kids together. ”

Not at all. The deadly pair are both so lazy that the effort of intercouse would be too much. Childless would be a safe bet.
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May 27, 2010 12:06pm
Jack5

New topic for a mo…

Things would be unlikely to go this far on Chinese-owned dairy farms in NZ. However, it’s food for thought…

The electronics of the computer you read this includes components made by this firm. If you were lucky enough to have an Iphone that, too, and perhaps even your TV.

China’s Foxconn, known at home as the Hon Hai Precision Industry Company, and its contractors employ more than 800,000 workers in China, roughly 70 per cent of them in and near the main plant at Longhua.

Ten workers have made suicide jumps at the main plant in the last year, and another two were hurt trying.
Now big American customers like Hewlett-Packard and Apple are investigating.

Labour critics say Taiwanese-owned Hon Hai forces workers to do heavy overtime to earn more than their base wage of around NZD200 a month.

It’s easy to make quips like you’ll be for the Longhua jump. But would the world accept this so complacently if the company was anywhere but a socialist-communist country? Seems to me the lefties exempt China from their pious judgments.

Read about it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7769394/Apple-Hewlett-Packard-and-Dell-probe-Foxconn-suicides.html
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May 27, 2010 12:07pm
Michaels

I guess we all better be careful to not mention the Helun Klark pledge card fiasco, especially in light of the touched up photo – silk purse out of a sows ear?

TUT TUT……… Demerits coming your way!!!!
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May 27, 2010 12:15pm
philu

“..The Americans legally and justifiably invaded Afghanistan, and instead of just bombing the fuck outta them and leaving the charred remains, they are actually trying to help get the Afghani’s back on their feet…”

you really are fucken politically naieve..eh..?

look at a map…

look at what surrounds afghanistan…

this is a geo-political power/play..to ensure long-term dominance in the region…

(do you really think they are there to ‘help’ the afghanis..?..awww….!..got a ‘little-pony’..?..have you.?..

..a resolute/unshakeable belief in the tooth-fairy..?)

of course..another reason cd be the largest reserves of natural gas..in the world…eh..?

d’yareckon..?

phil9whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 12:17pm
big bruv

# philu (8508) Says:
May 27th, 2010 at 11:54 am

fulla shit..you do know you are a template for ‘total fool’…eh..?

one outta the box…

phil(whoar.co.nz)

If this post by Phool is not abuse then I do not know what is.
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May 27, 2010 12:23pm
philu

“..If this post by Phool is not abuse then I do not know what is…”

um..!..most of yours..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 27, 2010 12:25pm
eszett

I have literally 100’s of these. They are all peer-reviewed. I’ve not included URLs as my comment would get held up in kiwiblog’s moderation queue. Each reference should be Google’able.

krazykiwi, you state all the publications as if they stand as they are and are unrefuted. I guess that’s why you claim that they are peer reviewed.

But if you search for them, you will find that actually the peer reviews do refute them. I just search a couple of you recent ones and found papers that actually show the errors in them.

So, yes, they are peer reviewed and found to be not valid. Yet that is something you conveniently ignore.

These are the two I researched on. I couldn’t bother with the rest.

♦ Cooling of Atmosphere Due to CO2 Emission (Energy Sources, Part A: Recovery, Utilization, and Environmental Effects, Volume 30, Issue 1, pp. 1-9, January 2008) – G. V. Chilingar, L. F. Khilyuk, O. G. Sorokhtin
♦ Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics (PDF) (International Journal of Modern Physics B, Volume 23, Issue 03, pp. 275-364, January 2009) – Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner

Both these publications have been rubbished by peer review.

This is where such an exercise becomes futile. Surely if you were interested you could have found the reviews yourself before posting them.

But in your eyes as soon as a paper has a title that refutes AGW it’s valid. If it confirms AGW, it’s a fake or falsified.
You seem to only accept anything that confirms your position and deny anything that refutes it.
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May 27, 2010 12:29pm
Kris K

Jack5 12:07 pm,

Things would be unlikely to go this far on Chinese-owned dairy farms in NZ. However, it’s food for thought…

Like I mentioned on the other thread:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/05/load_aim_fire.html#comment-697946

For example, if the Chinese get their hands on Crafer farms then we can say goodbye to the intellectual property which New Zealand has developed over the last 160+ years in the Dairy/Meat industry. This is what I view the main reason is for China’s interest in these farms – our expertise and knowledge in this industry.

And can anyone really imagine New Zealand surviving WITHOUT our dairy/meat/wool industry?
Last one out turn the light off …

Of course, as you said Jack, should we even trade with nations who only pay their workers NZD200 a month in the first place? And if we do we kill of, as one result, any alligned industries in our own country because they become uneconomic and uncompetetive.

Which raises the question of should we even enter into free trade agreements with the likes of China – for a whole lot of reasons?
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May 27, 2010 12:31pm
cha

Climate change, meet the scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/v/qZzwRwFDXw0&hl=en&fs=1
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May 27, 2010 12:32pm
krazykiwi

Opinion: Auckland ‘survivable, not liveable’

Auckland may be survivable, but is not liveable. It is as dead as the extinct volcanoes on which it lies. Its public transport is embarrassing, traffic awful and the weather poor. Crime is higher than in Sydney, and incomes lower. The Sky Tower is tall, but there is little to see.

Why then, did Mercer, a consultancy, rank the New Zealand city as the fourth most liveable metropolis in the world, ahead of Sydney in 10th place?

The answer seems to be that Mercer’s annual liveability list prefers vapidity to vibrancy. This year, Vienna is first, then Zurich, then Geneva – a roll call of the nice-but-dull. You might not be shot while living there, but there’s a fair chance tedium will send you mad.

An opinionated Aussie that one!
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May 27, 2010 12:36pm
MikeNZ

Jack5 (1771) Says:
May 27th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

read that before and wondered how many other firms are the same.

The deaths have also been seen as more of a social issue. Other factories also have similar problems but the problem is that Foxconn is the most well-known.”

This issue has a crossover to the mondayrised holidays thread too.

and we have a free trade agreement with them.
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May 27, 2010 12:39pm

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