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June 6, 2004 9:58am by David Farrar

He won the war!

Rest in Peace Ronald Reagan. You won the war and helped free hundreds of millions of people. Your legacy will be remembered for centuries to come.

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left

No one wins wars. Wars are for losers. Especially ones who invade.

RIP Ronald Reagan.
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June 6, 2004 9:37pm
Aaron Bhatnagar

Adolf Hitler would have been gratified to invade a country full of people like you, left@left.com it would have made his job so much easier in leading Jews, gays, gypsies and other undesirables to the gas chambers.

I for one am very grateful that the Allies won WW2, and that the Cold War was won by the West.
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June 7, 2004 8:23am
PNN

Time to bring out the old John Stuart Mill quote: “War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

Sound like you, “left”?
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June 7, 2004 7:27pm
left

I think John Stuart Mill, and the Allies of WWII would agree that defending one’s position in the world is absolutely worth fighting for. As do I.

My point was to those who are aggressors. Like the invaders of Iraq for example. Oh! aren’t they the apparent ‘winners’ of the Cold War? Oh dear.

I am very unhappy about current US foreign policy. May NZ never have the need to ‘liberated’ by them. For what ever reason. I just hope that we’ve managed to disarm all of the “Sheep of Mass Destruction”.

Ask a veteran sometime about the lunacy of war. Both of my grandfathers served. And they’re both dead.

Wise up boys.
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June 7, 2004 11:48pm
Aaron Bhatnagar

Oh, and so the Saddam regime deserved to live on? How generous of you to deprive freedom of Iraqis, so that your own disliking of America can be patronised.

And in the event that we were invaded by a country, I would pray desperately for liberation from America. Who were you relying on, the Malaysians, the Swedes, Nigerians? There is much to criticise America about, but also much to respect, and indeed love.

Perhaps it would have been nice to ask your grandfathers who served, and from how I read your comment, died in service of this country, about how they felt fighting alongside the Americans in WW2., or indeed, how they feel about Arab dictators.
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June 8, 2004 9:59am
Simon

Reagan a clear strategic thinker who formulated and implemented policy that destroyed a system that had murdered tens of millions and enslaved hundreds of millions. Reagan established America as the only super power enabling those that followed could repeat Reagan’s good work throughout the world and today particularly in the Middle East.

Reagan was the greatest force for freedom and world peace of the 20th century.
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June 8, 2004 10:20am
Axxyl

Left, be very careful. The hosts at this blog are very dirty players, and you disagree with them at your peril. He and his mates have a tendency to play the man, not the ball. And they use some very tenuous linkages in the process. http://blognz.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=6593
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June 8, 2004 2:31pm
David Farrar

Well done Axxyl you’ve managed to really peeve me off. As I am the host of this blog, can you substantiate your statement that I am a very dirty player and that I play the man, not the ball?

In the reference you gave, you were the one who on the basis of me mentioning I warned people of a speed camera trap, painted me as being partially culpable of manslaughter.

DPF
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June 8, 2004 3:05pm
Aaron Bhatnagar

This Axxyl chap is clearly a bitter fellow. Clearly doesn’t like being disagreed with. Might I suggest a dark room where he can sit alone and not see or hear anything he might find disagreeable as a suitable place for him?
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June 8, 2004 3:12pm
Craig Ranapia

Not to drift off the point, I suppose the greatest tribute you can pay to Reagan is the most simple – we are living in the world he made. I suspect I’m far from the only person who was inspired to become a conservative by his sane, civil and endlessly optimistic vision of free minds, free markets and limited government. While you have to regret that his vision – like Thatcher’s – was far from completion when he left office, I still believe he left the world a better place than he found it. Not a bad way to peg out.
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June 8, 2004 3:38pm
Aaron Bhatnagar

One can only contrast this with what is likely to be a much more subdued commentary when Jimmy Carter passes away.
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June 8, 2004 3:50pm
left

Good Grief Aaron, with comments like that, I’m beginning to think you might be a Abu Ghraib prison worker……What are you like with the banjo? 😉

Your logic seems flawed. You draw a parallel between what happened in Iraq – and NZ being invaded, yet saved by the US. When it is the US that globally is responsible for the most ‘interventions’. And I use that term very loosely. Besides – you’ve no argument from me about the justification for defending yourself. The point is that there was a flimsy justification at best for what happened in Iraq. If you think that there were WMD you are a fool. If there is no threat posed, then the operation is offensive rather than defensive. It is this that I have issue with.

Good Grief, Bush foreign policy is even ‘invading’ (the traditonally taboo area of) allies domestic policy (Bush making it clear how ‘disappointed’ he would be with the Australians should a withdrawal occur (suggested by the opposition))

Anyway. Miles off topic now. Reagan was OK compared to the current Idiot.

Don’t mistake my criticism of current american foreign policy for dislike of america in general. To do that would be nothing but hamburger politics 🙂
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June 8, 2004 3:54pm
PNN

I must write a FAQ dealing with leftist objections to the war on terror, as their same tired old lines keep appearing again and again.

left:

Iraq was required to PROVE it had destroyed all WMDs and WMD facilities under the Gulf War cease fire, which it didn’t do, end of story. But if you think it was all about WMDs you are a fool.

It mostly about reducing terrorism by depriving terrorist groups of a state backer and by starting to remove the conditions that create terrorism (ie totalitarian dictatorships using America/Israel as scapegoats for their own failure).
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June 8, 2004 6:22pm
Axxyl

See what I mean. Eexactly on cue. Now because I don’t like his opinions on speeding, I’ve supposedly accused him of being “partially culpable of manslaughter”. Liar. I said no such thing. I did say that he uses some very tenuous linkages, and he instantly responds to prove the charge. Judge for yourself. http://blognz.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=6593
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June 8, 2004 6:52pm
Aaron Bhatnagar

And indeed, the flimsy excuse given by Saddam himself as to why they would not open up compounds to the UN for inspection is that they were private places. or perhaps let me put it to you this way, if Saddam had nothing to hide, how come he didn’t invite the inspectors in with open arms?

I still believe that WMDs may yet be found in Iraq, or perhaps Iraqi WMDs can be conclusively proven to have been sent to other rogue states like Syria.

And no need to describe as being in cahoots with Private Englund. I deplore and despaired the images that I saw on TV of American soldiers behaving so disgracefully. What a shame that we as a society forget so quickly the even fouller atrocities of the Saddam regime, which committed not just indecencies like that of the Americans at Abu Ghraib, but rape and murder on a systemic scale.
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June 8, 2004 6:55pm
David Farrar

Axxyl – I repeat my request. You made the outraegous unprovoked statement that I am a “very dirty player” and that “I play the man, not the ball?” Now please provide some proof.

I did not say you accused me as being partially culpable of manslaughter – I said you painted me as being partially culpable. There is a difference.

What is very ironic is you show yourself as being guilty of the exact thing you accuse me of – “uses some very tenuous linkages”.

I post about a speed trap and you are the one who links it to a mad reckless drunken driver. How on earth can you get more tenuous than that?

Looking back I also note you make personal slurs aginst those disagreeing with you, and also totally mischaracterise what I have and have not advocated.

Indeed everyone should read the thread you link to as it will show you actually practice everything you complain about in others.
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June 8, 2004 7:15pm
Axxyl

Accused you of, painted you as, same thing. I did neither. Liar.

Apologies to Ronald Reagan RIP
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June 8, 2004 7:27pm
left@left.com

PNN,

I’m amused to see that you get your information from the likes of the Fox News Network. War on Terror. Yeah right.

Hey, I’ll do a DPF and request proof…
What’s that? You have none? I thought so.

Maybe we could ask Mr Tenet? Oh. He quit. Mmm.

Abu Ghraib underlines my point. The US may well end up achieving their objectives, but they have lost a hell of a lot of credibility and incited a heck of a lot of anti-american feeling globally along the way – more than before. They have stirred up an enormous hornets nest. I’m sure you’ll agree with me there. In the end, there will be no winners. Just death, anguish, violence and pain. No one wins wars. Wars are for losers. Especially ones who invade.

Goodbye. Hopefully next time you chaps will be armed next time for another battle of wits. I only hope you guys can concoct a policy that doesn’t revolve around american objectives.

It’s time to leave………….and he left.
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June 8, 2004 8:30pm
David Farrar

For the third and final time can I ask you Axxyl to back up the claim I am a “very dirty player” and that “I play the man, not the ball?”.

If you can stop calling me a liar for a few minutes also that would be good. And any it should be a reference to posts made prior to your claim.
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June 8, 2004 8:46pm
Axxyl

Mr Farrar, I obviously need to keep it very simple for you. Please proceed slowly, I don
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June 9, 2004 12:49am
PNN

left,

Good riddance to you.

Axxyl,

Just to clarify.

This is a personal slur: “If you can not differentiate between drunken reckless driving and safe driving for the conditions, then you are probably a menace on the roads.”

And this isn’t:”The host at this blog is a very dirty player, and you disagree with him at your peril. He has a tendency to play the man, not the ball.”

Is that what you’re saying?
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June 9, 2004 7:06am
David Farrar

PNN has summed it up perfectly. Little I can add.

I stand by my comment that people who can not differentiate between drunken reckless driving and safe driving for the conditions are probably a menace on the roads.

If you think that comment is “very dirty”, then that’s your right, but I doubt many agree with you.

I actually take pride that most of the debate on this blog is strongly argued but relatively friendly.

Axxyl seems to want to do nothing but attack me personally. Well feel free to do so, but not on my blog. I’d rather debate issues here.
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June 9, 2004 9:51am
Axxyl

Pnn. What’s business is it of yours? My comment was a RESPONSE to an earlier exchange. This is the problem with third parties entering late in the peice. And, pnn, what’s “good riddance to you”? if it is not a further example of exactly what I complained of, namely disagree in this site at your peril – robust debate indeed is “good riddance”.

Mr Farrer, from whence did you draw the inference that I cannot distinguish between drunken reckless driving and driving for the conditions? Nothing I said gave you cause to make that extrapolation.

You finally admit you were wrong. Thanks at least for that.

You asked for proof of my assertions. I provided it. In turn I asked for proof. You gave none. Instead, you have claimed home ground status. You took your ball and went home.

You’re probably mad, but Formosa’s Law prevents me from calling you mad, because you obviously have enough on your plate, and disqualifies me from further participation in the thread.

You’ve invited me to leave, and as you are the host, honour compells me to do so. Goodbye.

No need for all the vultures to now come in for my entrails. I’ll bid myself “good riddance” on all your behalfs.
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June 9, 2004 10:22am
David Farrar

Is it only me who finds it really really amusing that someone who gets so offended by a mild retort then comes in calling people dirty, liars, stupid, vultures, and now mad.
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June 9, 2004 10:50am
Aaron Bhatnagar

Axxyl, I thought you said you were going away?
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June 9, 2004 12:05pm
Jimbo

Axxyl, you’ve made your point. For mine, you’re absolutely correct, but so what. Now piss off.
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June 9, 2004 12:17pm
Phil

The people of Iraq are lucky that Mr Reagan lived. The man with a Yale degree and an MBA has followed in his legacy(hardly an idiot). Hundreds nay billions of millions of people will be thankful in years to come for the man who said the emperor had no clothes. RR and the Pope defeated communism. A truly great man.

When freedom and democracy come to the Muslim world they will not thank Bush or Reagan. That is not the way of things. But at least some of us can recognise how great they were in changing history. The likes of Axxyl and left would have Kim Il sung running the world.

From people according to ability; to people according to need. Are’nt we in the post communist era when Western Europeans and Americans have multiple televisions and cars and homes and holidays?
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June 11, 2004 8:36am
Prying Open

An oldie but a goody.

How does the US know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?

“We kept the receipts”.
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June 11, 2004 11:19am

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