General Debate 3 December 2009

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Yvette

Two items annoy me at the moment, and while I have my own ideas concerning them, I can not understand why a more definitive answer on each is not available to the general public, from agencies we are paying taxes to give such answers.

1] Key says Harawira’s comments were “racist” and hurtful and had “set back race relations”.

Harawira says he by his definition can not be racist [he’d need to be a majority power abusing a minority and of course sees himself as the latter.

And the Race Relations Commissioner can only talk of processes to be worked through, while he should be defining what racism actually is so all can understand it – in particular those in the New Zealand House of Representatives, let alone us masses [majorities and minorities].

2] Whys is there no definitive answer on whether global warming is due to greenhouse gases or variations in the earth’s orbit around the sun?
Especially as financial systems can be [and are] set up around the first cause but possibly can’t be concerning the second.
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December 3, 2009 8:10am
Yvette

[Racial Disharmony

[9A. Racial disharmony—(1) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(a) To publish or distribute written matter which is threatening,
abusive, or insulting, or to broadcast by means of radio or
television words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting;
or
(b) To use in any public place (as defined in [[section 2 (1) of the
Summary Offences Act 1981]]), or within the hearing of persons
in any such public place, or at any meeting to which the public
are invited or have access, words which are threatening,
abusive, or insulting,—

being matter or words likely to excite hostility or ill-will against, or
bring into contempt or ridicule, any group of persons in New Zealand on
the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national origins of that
group of persons.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the terms “publishes”,
“distributes”, and “written matter” have the respective meanings
given to them by section 25 (2) of this Act.]
This section and heading were inserted by s. 86 of the Human
Rights Commission Act 1977.
In subs. (1) (b), s. 2 (1) of the Summary Offences Act 1981, being
the corresponding enactment in force at the date of this reprint,
has been substituted for s. 40 of the repealed Police Offences Act
1927.

Okay?
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December 3, 2009 8:11am
mickysavage

So for his misdemeanours Harawira gets 9 weeks paid holiday? WTF?

Where can I get a job like that?

I thought Key was going to do away with this sort of thing?
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December 3, 2009 8:25am
NeilM

“9 weeks paid holiday? ”

The Labour spin. seems Labour are still obsessed with trying to get into a mano-a-mano bitch fight with Hone. The lads must have some very hurt pride going on but not many seem to have sympathy.
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December 3, 2009 8:36am
3-coil

Yvette – good points.

Hone, of course, would therefore agree that any Asian or Indian (or any member of any another minority group smaller than the NZ Maori population) calling him a “brown motherfucker” is (by his definition) not racist…yeah right 🙂

Hone is anti-pakeha racist scum. He is dancing on the head of a pin with his attempt to redefine racism, with his contorted criteria which conveniently exuse his own race-based hate. Apparently Hone is tough enough to taunt all white New Zealanders with his racist “white motherfucker” jibes, but not man enough to admit he’s a racist.
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December 3, 2009 8:38am
Don the Kiwi

Harawira is an a***hole and needs to wake up to himself. Maybe this is the beginning.

Aside from that, there’s been too much made of this – time to move on.
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December 3, 2009 8:40am
whalehunter

where does key stand?

he is now going to Copenhagen…
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December 3, 2009 8:41am
whalehunter

he can hang out with Helen.
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December 3, 2009 8:42am
Yvette

“Aside from that, there’s been too much made of this – time to move on.”

Yes, I know, but that is what we are always doing with no bloody closure on anything. In this case I feel it is the Race Relation Commissioner, smoothing stuff over, when he should be defining exactly what racism is. As Key says Harawira’s statement was racist, Harawira says it wasn’t, and the Maori Party [Sharples] says it is not for him to say!
How much is de Bres paid, how much did Maori Party hui cost the taxpayer, how much is Hone’s holiday until after Christmas cost – and there is nothing for all this?
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December 3, 2009 8:52am
paradigm

where does key stand?

he is now going to Copenhagen…

I wonder if he will pack some vogels?
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December 3, 2009 8:56am
Redbaiter

Get real people.

So called Maori (really a group of self promoting racists and charlatans) have all the political power in this country.

Why?

Because YOU GAVE IT TO THEM.

Solution- Don’t vote for parties that have racist ideas.
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December 3, 2009 9:01am
mickysavage

RB

Solution- Don’t vote for parties that have racist ideas.

Are you referring to the National Party?
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December 3, 2009 9:09am
big bruv

And to really make you puke on a Thursday morning have a look at who has been nominated for ‘human rights’ award.

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/02/sue-bradford-up-for-human-rights-award/
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December 3, 2009 9:20am
Yvette

CHANGE ON WEATHER CHANGE
April 1, 2050 3:04pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – United States President, Keegsquaw Golden Cloud, today announced that despite all world economies having collapsed due to pressures of global Emission Trading Systems, finance has now been found to fund research into earth’s orbital variations as a possible cause of weather change . . .

People’s Republic of New Zealand
April 1, 2050 6:37pm EST
AUCKLAND, Government Centre (Minority White Media) PRESIDENT BRADFORD HAS NO COMMENT AFTER HARAWIRA ADMITS ON DEATH BED TO RACIST COMMENTS MADE BACK IN 2009.
DE BRES TURNS IN GRAVE.
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December 3, 2009 9:25am
Redbaiter

“And to really make you puke on a Thursday morning have a look at who has been nominated for ‘human rights’ award.”

We in the “west” are awash in a sea of Progressive lies.
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December 3, 2009 9:26am
grumpyoldhori

What the hell is Hone Carter doing in handing public land over to a fucking foreigner.
Schmuck’s Law, sums it up real well, where is this arsehole from, dutchland ? or hunland ? a bloody kiwi he is not.
Fuck Hone, you manage to drop yourself it the shit often do you not ?

One of the rellies wants to put a sign up on that ex public land stating no dogs or hories, he of course is a trouble making hori 🙂
I suggest getting Harawira down to deal with it.
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December 3, 2009 9:28am
big bruv

Neville is off to Copenhagen it seems.

What a fucking waste of his time and my money.
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December 3, 2009 9:32am
dime

WHAT THE HELL??? hes going???? jesus

tickets were “provisionally booked”. yea right.

angry Dime
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December 3, 2009 9:37am
Banana Llama

Jon Key is going to Hopenchange … sigh .. you know he will flash that grin of his and what ever subliminal messages he has on inscribed his teeth will make us forget what we were angry about to begin with.
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December 3, 2009 9:45am
jcuknz

CARTER is NOT giving land to whoever, a hard working productive person anyway, but merely permitting the local council to in turn permit the guy to have access across the land which remains public property. You are stupidly spreading garbage Grumpy. Despite the damm Radio New Zealand woman’s interuptions I was able to get the facts despite her efforts to obscure them with her pet theory.

When I hear that ‘everybody’ is flying for a conference I’m reminded of the cartoon about the Global Warming savings if they had stayed at home and ran a tele-conference instead of a talkfess junket.
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December 3, 2009 9:46am
philu

“..We in the “west” are awash in a sea of Progressive lies..”

d’ya live out in hendo/’the taki’..there..red..?

surrounded by ‘greens’..are ya..?

phil(whoar.nz)
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December 3, 2009 9:48am
philu

which is the most boring soap opera at the moment….?

the hone dancing all over the maori party leadership..?

or..key batting his eyelids..

in the ‘will he/won’t he go?’..mini-drama…?

(i’m plumping for key..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 3, 2009 9:51am
Leonidas

I think I have found the answer……

Racist:
being matter or words likely to excite hostility or ill-will against, or
bring into contempt or ridicule, any group of persons in New Zealand on
the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national origins of that
group of persons.

Rachist:
Dem white muddafuckas wit all da powa holdin’ da brown bruva’s down.
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December 3, 2009 9:51am
Brian Smaller

So for his misdemeanours Harawira gets 9 weeks paid holiday? WTF?

Where can I get a job like that?

I thought Key was going to do away with this sort of thing?

I gave you a thumbs up for this, but really, mickey, when a Labour flunky like you tries to play the ‘he’s pandering to maori’ card it is a bit rich. Your whole party philosophy is to pander to people for votes and have subsequently kept the Maori as a good little brown voting block for most of the last century.
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December 3, 2009 9:56am
Murray

There is no racism in new Zealand, end of story.

If a MP can behave the way Hone has and we’re being sold thats its not racist then there are no rules on racism so everyone go nuts.

Go fast because its going to take a while to catch up with those like Hone who have a running start.
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December 3, 2009 10:04am
Swiftman the infidel

Race relations will continue to be abysmal until we put an end to the ‘Great Pakeha Guilt Gold Rush’.

Ironically, as in all gold rushes, very few of the ‘miners’ make much money and the folk who do best are those who sell the the equipment (lawyers, politicians).
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December 3, 2009 11:02am
Repton

If a MP can behave the way Hone has and we’re being sold thats its not racist then there are no rules on racism so everyone go nuts.

Personally, I like to think I have higher standards than Hone…
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December 3, 2009 11:02am
grumpyoldhori

jcuknz we should have special bloody laws for visitors to NZ, sod that.
And if that idiot believes he will have first rights to use that land for access in front of kiwis he has another thing coming.
Think the locals cannot stop him accessing that land, think again.
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December 3, 2009 11:05am
paradigm

This is a continuation of a discussion I was having with falafulufisi, about a verbose and bad paper who’s acceptance probably set more legitimate climate change skeptics back a bit. Falafulufisi decided to respond with some ad-hominem, so here is my response.

Paradigm said…
Furthermore the author introduces an obscure notion of “net energy flow”. The relevant quantity is the “net heat flow”,

Paradigm, I said to you to read the papers and obviously you didn’t. Let me ask you. What’s the difference between heat and energy? It is physics 101. If you can’t answer, then don’t waste my time in trying to educate you. Bloody read the papers, study them thoroughly, educate & familiarize yourself with the concepts they addressed, then come back.

Quote from Title #1)
———————-

It cannot be overemphasized that a microscopic theory providing the base for a derivation
of macroscopic quantities like thermal or electrical transport coefficients must be a highly
involved many-body theory. Of course, heat transfer is due to interatomic electromagnetic
interactions mediated by the electromagnetic eld. But it is misleading to visualize a photon
as a simple particle or wave packet travelling from one atom to another for example. Things
are pretty much more complex and cannot be understood even in a (one-)particle-wave duality
or Feynman graph picture.

Did you understand what they say? Physics of the large (huge ensemble), bears little similarities to the laws of the small scale. Emergent behavior thus arises. Where is the thermodynamic law equations in a hurricane ? None, you wouldn’t find that in a hurricane. If you can point me out that someone has incorporated thermodynamic equations into a physics of a hurricane, then that person deserves a Nobel Prize. The reality is, you would find none. WHY? Exactly as the authors have stated clearly. A many-body problem where the collective behavior of the units don’t conform to the laws that govern the units. Do yo follow what I am saying here? Hurricane is an emergent system phenomena.

As I said read, interpret, dig further, then come back. I don’t want to waste time educating you.

Falafulufisi, that is one of the most pathetic critiques I have ever seen:

In the first instance I didn’t actually say the term “energy flow”, I merely quoted a section of their report.

In the second instance, (as I presume you are aware) heat is energy flow through nonmechanical means, so I don’t see too much of a problem with them using the term “net energy flow”.

In the third instance, any nonstandard use of nomenclature on the part of the Physicist they decide to nitpick is utterly insignificant compared to the monumental error they make: claiming the second law of thermodynamics disproves global warming.

In the fourth instance, I find it ironic that you try to bag me regarding thermodynamics when they are the ones making the thermodynamic arguement. I merely pointed out they were not applying it correctly. Since you don’t seem to actually take issue with that statement, I take it you agree and accept that the authors don’t understand undergrad physics.

In the fifth instance I understand what the above paragraph means. I also understand it to be entirely irrelevant to the point I am arguing: that the authors do not understand basic thermodynamics. I suggest you read up to where I was quoting from, instead of quoting an irrelevant section from the introduction.

In the sixth instance I maintain that the paper is extremely verbose and poorly ordered – and I challenge you to, as (presumably a professional academic) tell me you honestly think it is a concise and well written paper which doesn’t just pad itself out by copying equations out of an undergrad physics textbook.

In the seventh instance I suggest you dump the ad-hominem. It does nothing to help convince people of the points you are failing to make. What’s next, accuse everyone who doesn’t agree with you of being a “white motherfucker”? Because as I recall it didn’t improve the credibiility of the last guy who said it.
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December 3, 2009 11:10am
Manolo

“I thought Key was going to do away with this sort of thing?” “He is now going to Copenhagen.”

Laughing loud and rolling over the floor after reading the tidbits involving the spineless Neville Key. What does this “leader” stand for? What does he stand against?

Key is nothing but a vacuous character, an eternal dilettante, an empty suit.
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December 3, 2009 11:19am
emmess

So John Key won’t cave in to pressure eh?

When 87% of the country vote against the anti-smacking law

It all this ladyboy is not for turning

But when ditzy celeb Lawless and climate criminal Salinger mount a idiotic stunt for a far left pressure group he caves in.

Absolutely pathetic
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December 3, 2009 11:25am
Leonidas

I’m beginning to think the real John Key was abducted by aliens the day after the election.
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December 3, 2009 11:30am
Repton

Here’s a link for Kris K, and anyone else interested in morals: On the moral roots of liberals and conservatives

He’s speaking to a mostly liberal audience, but it’s certainly not an anti-conservative rant. Well worth watching.

If you want to evaluate your own morals, the quiz is here: http://YourMorals.Org
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December 3, 2009 11:40am
wreck1080

Hey the killer of the cat-lady got a pretty good deal.

I’m not sure there is too much of a deterrent for murder now.
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December 3, 2009 12:06pm
philu

d’ya need a good belly-laugh..?

this is vid of british soldiers tripping on acid..in an army experiment..in 1963..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/soldiers-on-acid-1963-british-video-shows-troops-under-the-influence-of-lsd/

(the dry-as-dust commentary is the icing on the cake..)

“..But one hour and ten minutes after taking the drug ..

.. with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds ..

.. the troop commander gave up ..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 3, 2009 12:19pm
Kris K

Repton 11:40 am,

Here’s a link for Kris K, and anyone else interested in morals:

Cheers Repton.
I don’t know why my name springs to mind when you think of morals (I haven’t commented on GD yet today)?

“Kris K – he’s that moral guy that comments on Kiwiblog” 🙂
I will try to continue to live up to your expectations.
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December 3, 2009 12:22pm
philu

no.!

‘.kris k..he’s that resident fundie-loony at kiwiblog..

we have no ‘expectations’..

save for regular outbursts of fundy lunacy..

which he dutifully supplies..

(you need a good dose of acid in ya..!..kkk..!

then you’ll ‘see god’..

eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 3, 2009 12:30pm
Repton

@Kris K:

I don’t know why my name springs to mind when you think of morals (I haven’t commented on GD yet today)?

Well, you’ve written before about declining morals.

I don’t agree with everything you write, but you’re more articulate than most people here, so I generally pay you more attention 🙂
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December 3, 2009 12:42pm
LUCY

My first poredicition on this blog was that Hone would be forgiven- done

Also predicited on that date that Key would go to Copenhagen – done.

Next predicition on 30 Nov. while in Copenhagen Key will sign the agreement (the one that is in draft now that gives over our soveriegnty)
The lawyers identified in the Bazley report will not be prosecuted
The UN will say that it is not in the ‘earths’ best interest for NZ to drill for oil or minerals, and Key will comply.
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December 3, 2009 1:18pm
ephemera

@Kris K

What is GD?
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December 3, 2009 1:22pm
Don the Kiwi

General Debate
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December 3, 2009 2:20pm
Murray

LUCY want to throw us this weeks lotto numbers?
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December 3, 2009 3:29pm
bearhunter

Lucy – some more predictions – Sun will come up. Rain will fall. All Whites won’t win world cup… All equally predictable.
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December 3, 2009 3:34pm
big bruv

It’s all well and good to have a crack at Lucy guys but from what I have seen from our gutless socialist PM she may well be dead right.

I preferred Helen Clark,at least I knew who the enemy was.
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December 3, 2009 4:02pm
bearhunter

Not having a crack. Just saying that it was a lay-down misere that Hone wasn’t getting so much as a ticking off, while JK was always going to be in Copenhagen, chasing other world leaders around like an overexcited puppy. I always get the feeling he’s just an ace away from humping Obama’s leg.
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December 3, 2009 4:07pm
Pete George

This was always on the cards.

Muslims will empty their Swiss accounts

A Turkish minister said he expected Muslims to withdraw their money from Swiss banks in response to a referendum vote that banned the construction of minarets in the country, in remarks published Wednesday.

Daniel Cohn-Bendit, co-president of the Greens in the European Parliament, has also called on rich Muslims to empty their bank accounts in Switzerland in retaliation for Sunday’s referendum.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iUyijjSU1cMoYcQEAYekDDiEpedw
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December 3, 2009 4:17pm
getstaffed

Muslims will empty their Swiss accounts

They’ll need to find other banks that don’t pay interest then 🙂
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December 3, 2009 4:21pm
Hurf Durf

Fuck Greenpeace, fuck Sign On, fuck the Green Party. I wonder how much money they stuffed into Key’s re-election fund.

If people want some hilarious anti-AGW posters to force down some clipboard holder’s throat, go here.
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December 3, 2009 4:28pm
Manolo

NewsTalkZB reports: “Key confirms Copenhagen u-turn. After previously saying he would not attend, he now says that on balance, it makes sense for him to be there for the leaders’ meeting. Mr Key says the circumstances have changed in recent weeks and while it is unlikely a binding agreement will be reached, political momentum has grown and a lot more leaders have indicated they are attending.

“By my absence I wouldn’t want to give the impression that New Zealand isn’t committed to playing its part in the fight against climate change.””

You have to feel sorry for our country. Led by such spineless entity Neville Key, there cannot be any hope whatsoever.

The flip-flop master strikes again.
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December 3, 2009 4:28pm
Pete George

The flip-flop master strikes again.

I’m happy to have a PM who adjusts to a changing political climate. The Copenhagen momentum has changed significantly in a short time.
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December 3, 2009 4:37pm
Leonidas

Like blowflies to the turd they swarm…..
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December 3, 2009 4:41pm
Matt Long

I’ve just been watching Sue Kedgley and Chris Carter on Back Benches, it certainly brings home (despite the disappointment I may be feeling with the Nats) how good it is that those (Insert Honeism) are not in power and shouldn’t be for at least 5 years.
Saint John forever if he keeps them out.
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December 3, 2009 5:00pm
Kris K

Pete George 4:37 pm,

I’m happy to have a PM who adjusts to a changing political climate.

But does he have to adjust to the NON changing ACTUAL climate (read that AGW)?
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December 3, 2009 5:13pm
wreck1080

I see the antismacking law is starting to turn nasty.

Cops charged a father under the antismacking law for hitting his child with a small pillow. This is of course illegal.

The child did not cry, was not hurt, and was fine.

The cops chased this through depositions etc for 8 months. Even today they were arguing to the judge that a jury must decide on this serious case of father assaults child.

The judge threw out the case.

This is simply crazy. So , John Key, why weren’t you there to tell the cops to back off? You said that the law would not be misused. John Key, this is your fault and you are a disgrace for not changing the law.
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December 3, 2009 6:37pm
getstaffed

NOAA launches new website, headline plenty of fear mongering stories to keep the warmists armed for the good fight.

I also notice they’ve included hockey stick imagery on their page banner… which is nice, if slightly touché.
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December 3, 2009 6:57pm
kiwiteen123

I move that this country has no confidence in the official opposition.

“The Opposition aims to hold the government accountable and to present itself to the electorate as a credible government in waiting”

The opposition led by Phil Goff and the Labour Party has failed to meet these aims.

They have not managed to hold the Government accountable on the issues that really matter and instead have focused on the petty things. The job of the opposition is to ask questions and publically hold the government accountable for their actions. If the National-led Government was so minded they could do what ever they wanted with the opposition doing nothing.

The Labour Party (and Jimmy) have not presented themselves as ‘a credible government in waiting’. They are failing (or should I say “they have not yet achieved”). They are ineffective and present themselves as tired faces with tired policies from the 1980’s. In the latest poll, Phil Goff was at 5%.

They present a man who appears to be drunk onto television prattling on about how bad Roger Douglas is/was and that New Zealand started to go down hill from his time. I’m sorry but, what party did he belong to?

For the Labour Party to gain real traction, they need to have a turnover. They need to remove the old faces and bring in new ones. They need to scrap the leader and his deputy and gamble on a younger face.

As I see it, the real problem with the Labour Party is that their more experienced members are too old and their brighter faces are too young. For the time being, Labour is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I move that this country has no confidence in the Labour-led opposition because they fail to hold the government accountable and they fail to present themselves as a credible government in waiting.
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December 3, 2009 9:49pm
Murray

“I’m happy to have a PM who adjusts to a changing political climate.”

I’d rather have one who does what hes damn told to by his employers. Us.
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December 4, 2009 8:35am

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